Physical Health is Mental Health feat. Payge

Today we're incredibly excited to welcome Payge Duerre on the podcast who is a nanny, recent receiver of a BPD diagnosis and a person living with a variety of health conditions that, while serious, are not holding her back from living a badass life. Payge uses an ostomy bag and has been incredibly honest about her experience with multiple surgeries and life with her illness. The intersection of physical and mental health is so interconnected and we discuss the trauma of having experienced severe, chronic pain her entire life and how that may be a potential cause of her BPD. 

You can find Payge on Instagram @paygeshappypage

You can find Laurie and Sara on Instagram to follow their day to day lives even further @laurieanned and @saraswellnessway. You can also find the podcast on IG @boldbeautifulborderline

You can also find Sara's business as a Mental Health Clinician and mental health coach at thewellnesswayllc.com

If you like the show we would love if you could rate, subscribe and support us on Patreon.

For mental health supports:

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or Live Online Chat

SAMHSA Treatment Referral Helpline, 1-877-SAMHSA7 (1-877-726-4727)

OR find a local warmline to you at https://screening.mhanational.org/content/need-talk-someone-warmlines

Transcript

Sara Amundson: 0:31

Well, good morning. Hi everyone. This is Sarah. I am here with Laurie as always, but we actually have a really special guest joining us on the podcast today. And this is really fun because we've been talking about recording this episode for so very long. And I think Paige probably thought that we forgot about her. We did not forget about her, we just, we just were in the middle of finishing the symptom series part of the BBB pod. And now we're ready to bring on some extra special guests. Today we have our friend Paige with us, who we got connected to on Instagram and pages freaking incredible. She's gonna tell us a little bit about her story as a person living with BPD, but also a person that has chronic health issues. And a person who is a nanny, which you all know how much we love the littles. So it's going to be really fun to hear about her experience working with kids, and also having these illnesses and being in recovery. So today, Paige, welcome to the podcast.

Payge Duerre: 1:33

Why oh my gosh, I love you guys.

Sara Amundson: 1:39

We love you!

Laurie Edmundson: 1:42

Yeah, it's been a long time coming. I feel like we've been trying like to schedule this for so long. So it's super awesome to have you. I'm just curious, like, do you want to tell us just kind of like your life story and in like a summary version, like why you're here and, and all that?

Payge Duerre: 2:00

Well, um, so I, when I was little, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Um, when I was five, I had symptoms, though, for two years, like I was sick it on and off, since I was three, got diagnosed when I was five. And then I'm, like, 18 years later, I was was right before my 20th birthday, I got surgery to have an ileostomy bag place like I got my colon taken out. Um, I was basically like, way too sick for any of the medications. None of them were working for me or anything. And then after that, I got a second surgery that closed up my rectum and anus that took it all out. So I have my permanent ileostomy. And then like, right after that I was actually diagnosed with BPD. And I do think it was a long time coming cuz back in high school, my therapists were always like, they were going back and forth from Oh, you have depression? Oh, you have anxiety? Oh, you have depression? Oh, you have anxiety. And then you get I got sent to Mayo Clinic, which is up in Rochester. And it's like one of those big hospitals, you know, like Mayo Clinic, like you have to get a referral to be sent to one of those. And so I did and then after right before my first surgery, my doctor was like, You know what, you should really start seeing an actual psychologist or like someone who's actually who actually can diagnose you who can actually give you meds. And he's like, these surgeries are really big, not only on your body, but on your mental health. Like, your body is changing constantly. Your mind really can't keep up with it. Like it's it's goes hand in hand. And he's like in it has gone hand in hand forever. So if you think that you need any sort of help, you should be asking and like, you know, 18 year old female 18 year old male, whoever that age, you're like, I don't need any frickin help, like, whatever, whatever. And like I pushed it off, pushed it off. And I was like, I don't like That's stupid. My surgeon telling me I need to go have frickin therapists. Like, I feel very. I felt someone was like forcing me to go do it. And I did not. I did not see it in the way that they saw it. But then, two surgeries later, I was like, yeah, maybe I should start seeing someone like I cannot handle this like my day to day I was. I was definitely in like a fight or flight mode. Like every day I would wake up and I'd be so scared to like, not even I shouldn't even say scared. It was more like I would create little fears that would scare me. Like I'd be like okay, I'm gonna go to work and like something shady is gonna happen, like, I'm gonna get yelled at or screamed at, or I'm gonna look in the mirror and I'm gonna hate what I like, just little teeny tiny things throughout the day. And I ended up creating more health problems because I wasn't going to get myself help. Like, I was giving myself panic attacks and shakes and like way, way more things that just don't come along with Oh, I'm depressed, you know, like it was. It was scary. Almost. I was like, I couldn't go a day without shaking like I felt. What? What's that one disease, Parkinson's, I felt like I had Parkinson's, like, I'm not to not to disregard Parkinson's at all. But that's what I felt like, my body could not stop shaking, and I could not control it, and I could not do anything. And I finally when I got helped, and I was explaining, like, start to finish throughout high school, I was like, my, my, my parents did this. I this happened to me, I was I was very, very open sexually, like, like, when you guys were talking about the symptoms, like I related to a lot of them, like I was very open with my body to that with with with men and what not very safe. And like I was, as I was explaining this, she kept she kept nodding and nodding and like jotting it down. And at the end, she's like, so Paige, I'm gonna be honest, it sounds like back in high school, you were misdiagnosed, like three times, and you might have BPD. And I'm like, I want to just start crying because I'm like, I really don't know what that is. And everyone like says, everyone you see everywhere on the internet. Oh my gosh, mental health is so terrible. Like people with bipolar people with OCD people with BPD. Like, I didn't even hear about what BPD was, I was just focused on the other ones that I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to juggle a chronic illness and mental illness. I'm like, this is so hard and so shitty. I'm like, No one, no one. No one wants to support you, like everyone wants to be against you almost like the whole internet is like, you got to find your little niche, your little group of people. Yeah, I didn't have that. So I've made things like 10 times harder. But after she said that, I went back, I went back to this therapist, like two or three times, we would talk and she would explain ways on how to find the silver lining out of this and like the good out of it, because she's like, people, you'll you'll, you'll Google BPD or you'll talk to people about PB BPD. And they'll be like, Okay, this happens to you. And this happens to you. And it's negative, negative, negative, negative, and she's like, but there are so many positives, she's like, you, you've obviously been talking like you're so emotional, like you guys are very, you can feel all these emotions, so you can feel someone else's emotion. And she's, she's like, when you walk into a room, you can feel when someone's sad. And like, you can be the one that helps them out. Or like, you can be the one that sees something more clearly. Because like, She's like, with your emotions being so big. You can feel when others emotions are different sizes and even what they are, she's like, it's almost like you can dig down to the actual seed and the actual grit of what that emotion is and what it entails. When other people can't they just they just feel anger. And they want to like be angry, but she's like, with BBD like, yes, you can feel anger. But then after a little while, like you can, like almost realize what it is us I don't know, it was she was explaining it and I was like okay, I I'm getting a little bit more clearer like I can I can see what this actual diagnosis is and like how you can grow from it and all that kind of stuff and like make it into a positive outlook, Outlook. But it also almost, like allowed me to realize that I wasn't messed up in the head. I literally would go like every day I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm so fucked up. I don't know how to handle myself. I don't know how to handle other people. And then after she's like, okay, it's not you like it is you but it's not, not you. Like it's two different things in your head like there's pain and then I have my BPD brain and like some days they coincide very well together. And some days they do not. Those are the hard days. You know But I'm honestly I've noticed with kids, they keep me straight and keep named me more than adults do. Like I am so dysregulated by adults, and by like teenagers and people who who fly off the handle, like on purpose. You know, kids, kids don't do shit like that on purpose. I can be around a kid and I can hear them screaming, I can hear them yelling, and I can hear them. I can hear them being dysregulated without me becoming dysregulated. And with adults, and with teenagers, and people my age, I cannot I will become dysregulated just along with them. And that is the hardest thing when you're when you're not dysregulated I think pert like personally when I'm not dysregulated and someone makes me become dysregulated that's the hardest. Like, for me, symptomatically because it's not even my fault. I didn't do it.

Laurie Edmundson: 11:01

That's so interesting, because like, I'm not a kid person, like kids are cute, but I'm not a kid person. And I find like being around kids to be so stressful because I don't know how to help. Right? And I guess like what you're saying because you work with kids all the time. It's like, you know, you don't know how to help so you just like can deal with it right? But it's the other way around for me like the I can't figure out why they're being the way that they are stresses me out more. So that's really interesting.

Sara Amundson: 11:32

Okay, I'm with Paige. Man, give me them all. Give me Give me the kids. I don't want to have one. But like, put me around like preteens and littles. Oh my God, they are so fun. And it's, it's interesting to me, Laurie to hear you say that because for me. And maybe it's just because I'm like such a behaviorist. I feel like I can just watch them process the world. And I'm like, you did this because of this. And it's just like, we need to fix that so that you don't do that.

Payge Duerre: 12:03

Exactly I think a lot of times, like almost the kids, like because they don't know how to understand or process certain feelings. They have to work through it. And like seeing them work through it almost helps me learn how to work through it. I'm like, adults don't sometimes don't know how to work through a problem. They just push through it and like, they force themselves to feel it or force themselves to get over it. And I'm like, first of all, forcing yourself to get over a feeling is not okay. I hate when people force me to get over a feeling. I'm like, No, just let me feel it. Let me work through my own process because I can do it. You're just trying to force me to do it quicker than you think I can do it. My kids are the same way. I almost feel like my PPD brain makes me into a kid because I'm like, Okay, I have like steps to process I gotta, I gotta think about my feeling. I gotta feel my feeling. I gotta, I gotta feel myself letting it go. And then I got a lot of go, you know, like, adults are weird. I can't I can't handle adults.

Laurie Edmundson: 13:08

They are weird, really weird. And yeah, you're right. Like, kids, you kind of let them cry. And like, you're okay with that. And that's how it should be right? Like, our emotions are valid, we can live in those emotions, like, we don't have to hide them or whatever. And like kids don't know to hide them.

Sara Amundson: 13:24

Well, and I really love what you said Payge about, like, Don't force me to process through my feelings in a certain way or a certain time. And I've felt this so many times in my life of like, if I need three weeks to get over this situation, I need three weeks to get over it. And that's not your, like, you're not allowed to be uncomfortable by my processing. Like, you want to speed it up so that you're more comfortable. Good. Go do that elsewhere. I need you to like create the space for me to navigate this in a way that is effective and safe. Because when you try to speed it up, things stop being safe.

Laurie Edmundson: 14:05

Yeah, 100%

Payge Duerre: 14:06

Yeah. More emotions go off the handle. I feel like like, Oh my gosh, I just got into a spat with my partner a couple weeks ago. And I have been working very hard on myself to get over my feelings quicker than I have. Because I definitely have noticed that getting over feelings with BPD is highly impossible sometimes if you don't actually work through them. Oh, my gosh, like, literally got into a spat or whatever. And I'm like, okay, you know, go go, go hang out your friends, go do whatever. I don't care. I don't care. I need I need today and I need tomorrow away from you. I'm like, I'm sorry. This sounds so terribly mean. But no. I'm like if I am if If we are going to be doing this after our fight, then we can have supper together and we can wake up together, I cannot spend the next, the next exact 48 hours later with you, I'm sorry. So he got up and left. And it was like a good day. Like we each had our own way on getting releasing emotions. And honestly, eating supper that night wasn't terrible, because like some days, we fight, and then you spend all day together and you're still in crappy moods, and you're still short with each other, or sassy with each other, or cold or whatever that mean, edge. But like, I don't know, I feel like a lot of time apart. And like my quiet time in my brain trying to figure it out my whole just myself is is so necessary. Even just not even when a fight is happening just daily, I just need like, a few minutes to myself to redo all of what I felt every all day every day, you know?

Laurie Edmundson: 16:08

Yeah, space is so important. And like, that's where the really good boundary setting comes in is being able to say like, Hey, you know what, I need a day break, because I'm sure most of us, you know, five years ago or whatever, wouldn't have been able to say that. And that would have triggered our abandonment issues and all that stuff, right.

Payge Duerre: 16:27

It's hard thinking about how hard far, or like how how, how far we've come, but like how different it has been? Because honestly, I wouldn't have been able to ask for a day, I wouldn't have been able to like, even if I was being flat out mean to my partner, you know, five years ago, I still wouldn't have been able to let him walk away or we

Sara Amundson: 16:54

don't leave me. Even if it's not healthy. Can we I'm this is can we just take a moment to like, recognize that this is such a cool place to be at page because once you get to this place that you're talking about, you stop, and you realize other people have fear of abandonment as well. Like, I'm at a place where I'm healthy enough to say I need a day or four days or a week by myself. And you notice that that triggers abandonment or fear of rejection, and then and then you're like, Oh my god, other people feel this too. Now I have to validate them. Weird. This is so weird, but it's so cool. It's like

Payge Duerre: 17:47

oh my gosh, you're so right. Like, I guess I never really noticed that.

Sara Amundson: 17:53

You didn't notice it because you've been so dysregulated for so long, right? And then when you start to come out of the dysregulation into regulation and use the skills and you start to find recovery, you notice that other people have all of these processes going on that you can be that you can witness and be supportive about like and help and that's what your therapist was telling you at the very beginning.

Payge Duerre: 18:17

Yeah. Wow.

Laurie Edmundson: 18:22

Sara is very smart. She's good at like putting these puzzles together.

Sara Amundson: 18:26

Is think it's freaking cool, man. Like, that's so cool.

Payge Duerre: 18:32

Well, I was always wondering, because like, I know, not everyone. Not everyone feels that. Not everyone diagnosed with BPD are the only ones who feel the BPD symptoms and like, I have noticed that I have noticed that I will be honest, I don't know how to handle when someone else has those symptoms, because I know it's completely individual and everyone's process it completely individual and like me, I I have come to the part in my healing. I I am choosing myself over everyone else and I don't care. I don't care. I am telling people I'm like I care about you, but I don't give a fuck about you. And that is my motto and it has been for like two months. Because I care about everyone and I do and I will love you. But until that starts impacting me negatively, that's when I stopped giving a fuck. Like I will care but I will not go more than that. Like I will like it's hard boundaries but and it sounds that it's hard to think of boundaries like in person talk about everything with everyone, but I know not everyone's comfortable. So I started like asking like, are you in the mind space to hear about this from me? Or how do you want me to help or do you want me to listen like do you want yes or do you want like it's all Hard

Laurie Edmundson: 20:02

that one phrase, do you want advice? Or do you want me to listen or empathy or whatever, like, whatever words you use is so fundamental. And it like I intentionally do that now, whereas I don't think I used to do that. And I have a lot of friends who don't do that. And it's like, you say, a problem. And then it's immediately like, Well, why don't you do this? Why don't you do this? Why don't you do this? And it's like, well, that's not actually why I'm talking like, I'm just trying to, like, get it out, right. And I find I like shut down sometimes with certain people. And I just don't share because I don't actually want the advice. I just need to say it out loud. And so I've stopped I've, like, started just kind of being a lot more closed, which I'm not a closed person, as every single listener knows. But yeah, like just saying, Do you need advice? Or do you want advice? Or do you want empathy? Or do you want me to listen?

Payge Duerre: 20:58

I feel like I also started reaching out more to people with like mental illnesses, or like a chronic illnesses, or just some extra area in that sympathetic empathetic space. Because I cannot automatically just bring up a story and get advice, like, I will not know how to respond, because I honestly don't ever want advice. Like, I like asking. I like talking about my issues, but I like trying to figure it out myself. Because I, personally, I'm religious. So like, I don't want to go and ask every single human because everyone is everyone is every single person is not perfect. And they don't know, like, not every single person knows how to help in the proper way. So I really don't try and go around telling everyone the same story, getting advice, you know. So I feel like, since then, I started reaching out to people who will communicate that way to me, because I've been communicating that way to other people. I don't know, I feel like, I feel like talking to two people with mental illnesses. It is difficult because like everyone's talking about, like their own story. But everyone can relate on some sort of level. So it's very, it's a very familiar community almost,

Laurie Edmundson: 22:27

that makes you feel normal. Like not a freak. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's honestly, I think that's why your Instagram is so awesome is because, I mean, the, the mental illness part is super important. Obviously, we super care about that. But to me, I'm learning about your chronic illness in a way that I wouldn't learn otherwise, right. And so, like, I don't know, anybody who's not open about a chronic illness, and I'm sure there's tons of people that are, but the way that you like, you show off your bag all the time. And like, you're just like, super open about, like, everything that's going on is so cool. To me. And I don't mean, like I don't have a chronic illness like you have. So I can't even imagine how much that makes other people feel completely, like, loved cared for, and not alone, you know.

Payge Duerre: 23:17

And that's like, I feel like that's like, what, what a lot of people just want, like, even if even if they're on not not healed in the head, like if even if they have a mental illness, even if they have a chronic illness, like the only thing that everyone should feel it, they should always feel loved. And they should always feel worthy because it doesn't matter. Like To be honest, it doesn't matter if you're half a person. Physically, if you're half a person mentally, like you're, you're fully worthy to be loved. And oh, man, I just wish everyone would feel that.

Laurie Edmundson: 23:58

That's amazing.

Sara Amundson: 23:59

That is one of the I feel like my life comes back to that community organizing and that advocacy piece of like, it does not matter if your IQ is 49 or I don't know what the top of that IQ scale is 200 shit, that's certainly not me. It doesn't matter. Like how you identify, it doesn't matter where you come from. It doesn't matter how, like what your abilities are, you have the same worthiness for love and belonging and acceptance as anyone else. And I mean, I certainly hope that this podcast helps promote that where BPD is concerned, but there's so much work across all other communities, right and all other disabilities that needs to be done around this. And we know better than anyone the fear of not being loved the impact that that has on our lives.

Payge Duerre: 24:53

I don't honestly remember I was going so you go.

Laurie Edmundson: 24:56

So sorry. So sorry. I was just wondering like, so I was saying, you know, obviously for this podcast, we're really trying to promote, you know, kind of unity and acceptance of BPD Did you find when you were going through your medical, I'm going to I'm going to separate medical and mental even though we know that they're the same thing. But when you're going through your medical care versus your mental health care, did you find a significant difference in how you were treated by the systems?

Payge Duerre: 25:26

Okay, so with my health it started so young, I did not know how to advocate for myself, like, and I still technique I really don't, I really don't. I am very light hearted. And so like, if a doctor pushes me away, I'll be like, okay, okay, I'll go find a new one. Like, I, I know, I should be stronger with myself. But my mom has always been my advocate, like serious. She's just, she will always try and get the best health because she knows that that's what you need. Like, every, there are some doctors that you'll go and see. And they're like, okay, it's a stomach bug, or Okay, yeah. You don't have a disease. But you have IBS? Like, no, I don't have IBS, like, billions of people, not billions, I should say, billions, millions of people have IBS. Let's have an actual disease. But like, I definitely noticed that when you are getting sick, and you actually advocate for yourself, the doctors and the health system will push for you as well. When you find your you're good team, and you're good. If you have good insurance, I don't know. I thought I have good insurance, but they keep screwing you over because insurance is just a bunch of B holes. But like mine pushed me through, I remember at my sickest back in high school. Okay, I had two different types of my sickest at one, my one doctor was like, okay, like, let's take out your call in we'll try that and see if you get feel better. And that was like four years before I was actually going to get my when I had my actual surgery done. And so like that was completely out of the way were like, the fuck are you trying to do to me, you're just trying to have me have a surgery, have one of my organs taken out? Like you haven't tried anything. But then after that, they definitely tried their hardest. They're like, okay, we have this medication and this medication, we could try this clinical trial, and then this research project and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, after that after I went and I was like, I'm not doing this. You're trying to push me to do something that is not okay. Then they did all of these steps. And I feel like medically, they try and get down right to the right to the issue right at the beginning. And for me my mental health. That was not it. Because back back in high school, when I was first diagnosed, when I first started going to therapy, they're like, yeah, depression and instantly put me on Prozac. Then second, I had an anxiety meds so they took me off Prozac and put me on the other one. And like, I literally don't remember probably six months of my life like in my sophomore junior year, like the solid six months, I do not remember because of all the medication was jumbled and everything and like people at school. They were telling me, like, I seriously don't remember this, but my mom would come home. She's like, Did you say this to a teacher today? And I'm like, I don't fucking know. Like, why are you asking me? And she's like, well, I just got a call from your teacher that said, you said this to her and that normally, you're a very nice gal, but it came out very snotty and like, like I was talked to probably like, so many times during that six month period, because I did not know how I was talking to people. How I was dealing with people because I was just put on random meds that changed me and like messed me up. And I'm like, No, okay. Personally, I feel like if it's a mental illness, you need to truly get down to what it is instead of just throwing out a diagnosis. And you can't just give someone met two. I understand men are like I have met No, like, nothing bad about I'm not talking bad anything about them at all, because they helped me greatly. But you can't just put someone on something random that you think will work because that is more messed up than leaving them not on anything,

Sara Amundson: 29:41

It has to be the right medication. And this is why I preach over and over and over again. We do not accept meds from a primary care doctor.

Laurie Edmundson: 29:49

Unless you're in Canada and then you....

Sara Amundson: 29:50

unless you're in Canada, that's fine. Go back to the episode that we talked about this it's called my happy pill or something. I don't know.

Laurie Edmundson: 29:59

There's no such thing as a happy pill, I think yeah, Yeah. And like, I mean, to me at least I was diagnosed with everything, you know, depression, anxiety, dysthymia, whatever, panic disorder, all these things. And it wasn't until I received a BPD diagnosis that I was like, oh, like, everything makes sense, right? Like, because you could have obviously you could BPD and depression and anxiety and panic disorder and whatever. But it to me, the BPD is like the overarching like, theme of everything else. So like, I'm depressed because I'm experiencing really intense emotions, and I have no hope and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or I'm anxious because like, my brain is working overtime because of my emotions that I can't keep them in controller, and like, and I was put on a whole bunch of antidepressants to that, like, weren't targeting the actual issue. And again, I have nothing wrong. Like there's nothing wrong with medication. But yeah, I feel you on there, like just giving you random stuff. But then at the same time, like, if a doctor just said to you like, hey, let's try taking out your organ. That's also like, that's kind of concerning. Like, I feel like maybe that's similar, you know? I don't know.

Sara Amundson: 31:17

I do.

Payge Duerre: 31:18

My mom was like, What? She, you know,

Sara Amundson: 31:24

I do think it's worth noting, however, that like, all three of us, myself, Laurie, and Paige, we're all diagnosed with depression, and probably generalized anxiety disorder. And we all three have BPD, right? It's like exactly what you're saying, Let's like get to the root of this, because BPD is probably giving us anxiety, because we're ruminating about our fear of abandonment or fear of rejection, are like we said something wrong, of course, and then it's giving us depression, because, like, the lack of self worth, these are, these are really general statements. And obviously we work through them or whatever. But like, this is not a coincidence. People are this is.

Laurie Edmundson: 32:07

Yeah, well, and I think like for Payge, when I'm listening to your story, like BPD, a trauma history, an childhood is a huge significan piece of developing borderlin personality disorder. And like that doesn't have to be sexua assault, that doesn't have to b like emotional or physica abuse, that can be going throug extensive surgeries as a kid o like going through constan diagnose diagnostic procedure for a medical issue, right. An so, to me, like, it would mak sense with your significan medical trauma, that that woul be something that would happe to you in the end, right

Payge Duerre: 32:44

Well, as I go through your podcast, and as I listen to all of your symptoms, and like as I listen to your guys's backstories, like, I kept trying to think, and picture mine, I was like, Okay, let's, let's dig deep. Let's try and remember all these memories and all this junk. And I'm like, Okay, yeah, you're I mean, you're exactly right. Like all, all the medical history, like the more and more I even dig through my Instagram and see other people with chronic illnesses. The ones who are going through all these mental troubles right now are the ones who were have gone through it since they were a kid, like the ones who were traumatized in like, hospitals. And I will say this are not places of healing, they are traumatizing places constantly. Like, there is no bit of healing in a hospital at all. And I will always say that, always. Because, yes, there are doctors and people who want to make you better, but you can't heal in a place. That's just sickness. You can't so you can go there and figure out what's wrong. And then you can leave and heal yourself. But you there's no healing done at a hospital. So all of these people that like have been in hospitals and stuff, like I can see like, they're just having all of these mental troubles mental illness, like literally just cries for help. And I'm like, it breaks my heart, because it's not like they were even asking for it. Like they're physically something's wrong, something needs to be changed, and it's not our fault.

Laurie Edmundson: 34:20

I mean, I honestly like I obviously can't imagine how much that would impact your life overall. And then like, of course, you have you're still experiencing chronic illness, right? Like, I mean, it's not like it's gone. But just part of being a kid and probably feeling really helpless and like, not being in control. And I mean,

Sara Amundson: 34:41

in taking formative developmental years, I mean, you were sick as early as three It sounded like right, like, started getting treatment at five. I had been sick for years prior.

Payge Duerre: 34:52

Yeah, so it's like you kind of lose your child and almost and I feel like this might not feel like everyone one else. I feel like a lot of my BPD are childish symptoms. 100 like, I feel like When, when, when that's going off in my head, I'm like, I feel like such a child. But it's, it's okay. It's clean. Like it's, it's, it's, it's a feeling that just needs to get out because obviously at some point when you were a child or it wasn't able to come out, think it blows my mind because you like you've lost so much of whatever happened. Like you can't, you couldn't you can't go back and do it. But you can do it right now to heal yourself. You can get that inner child out, you can get your little trauma, your little tantrum out or whatever and feel the same. Even though it's not like a positive.

Sara Amundson: 35:47

Yeah, D. So this is funny, I was talking to somebody that I'm dating the other day about, like, like, I really I will, I was like on this thing, because it's been Easter recently about dyeing eggs. And then I was on this thing about something else. And he said something to me. And I was like, Don't you love to do? Like, I love Christmas, because I want to choose the perfect Christmas tree and decorate it so cute. And I love coloring and coloring books. Like I like having my inner child come alive. I think that that's such an important thing that we do. And maybe it's maybe we need to Laurie ask for some money for research about the relationship between attachment and BPD. But that's a separate thing. But like, do you like to do things that are childish in nature, I love it. Like I want to color I want to design I want to like play in the dirt with my hands.

Payge Duerre: 36:40

I just love it. That's I like watching kids they make they make things so much easier. Like I can be doing my inner child or bring it out or doing something stupid and childish. But I I feel like a normal person because I am surrounded by little mini people. Like, I'm not I'm not being like, I'm not going out and oh, let's go pick daisies or whatever. And then all of my adult friends are like, are you on crack? Like, what? No. I like being with kids because they help with that. I feel like I feel like they regulate me like I said that earlier too. But that helps getting your child that inner child out.

Laurie Edmundson: 37:22

How long have you been nannying?

Payge Duerre: 37:25

Um, well, I started with one family back in middle school I was on and off with them until they moved away. And then in high school I nanny during the summer. And then after I graduated, I worked at an elementary school. I was the substitute as an elementary at an elementary school. And then after that in 2009 teen right before my surgery, I moved to a bigger town in Iowa and worked at an elementary school there. And then after my surgery, I I was working with behavioral kids. And so it was really physical and demanding. And it was just it was not a very good physical place right after surgery. So then after that I became a nanny. So I've been planning for, I mean, on and off since middle school, but right now for two and a half years completely consecutive consecutively.

Laurie Edmundson: 38:23

That's so cool. That's the job. But it's cool.

Sara Amundson: 38:30

I love counseling kids, man. They are way more fun than adults. And I will always say this, like I love counseling teenagers like 13 to 17 they're so fun. I wish

Payge Duerre: 38:45

more people people started going to like therapy and stuff that young. I feel like it would be so much more open. It's so much more healing for everyone to know those skills.

Laurie Edmundson: 39:01

Yeah, absolutely. So speaking speaking of that, do you want to tell us a little bit about like how you've kind of gotten to the place you are now with your mental health? Like Have you gone to dialectical behavior therapy or like other counseling and kind of what is your recovery story look like?

Payge Duerre: 39:18

To be honest. So after I want to that one therapist, it was about a year ago when I was diagnosed with BPD but I only went to her a couple more times. And then that whole quarantine COVID junk started, you know, and everyone was locked out home and I couldn't do therapy online. I hated it. There was no emotional connection like I couldn't it gave me more anxiety than not going to therapy at all. So I pushed through it and I went to one, one appointment online and I was like No, therapy makes me cry, and I want you to hand me a tissue, I want you to reach over and consult, like, touch my knee or something like, I want that connection, I want you to look at me like, oh, if, like, if we were this close, I'd be crying too. Like, I don't want to be through the I mean, I know like distance and stuff, but I have not done any of those families zoom calls or anything, because I just don't I want that emotional connection the with the people, you know. So after I, um, I stopped going to see her. So to be honest, a lot of my healing from like a year ago to now has been all on my own. And it's been very hard, but very rewarding, because I can see like, okay, I can see myself a year ago. And like six months ago, like, to where I am now. And I'm like, I've done this all on my own. And it makes me want to keep doing i, where I'm living, my partner and I live at his parents house. So that has been the hardest part of my healing actually.

Laurie Edmundson: 41:14

I bet.

Payge Duerre: 41:16

Like to be ho est, after I moved out in high school, I, right after high school, I was like, I pro ised myself I'd never live with parents again. And ike, breaking that promise to m self was probably my like, most hardest mental low. Beca se I was like, you know, I k pt I keep my promises to myse f, I hate it. Like, I hate bre king just just to myself, you now. But like I moved in, and t en I broke that promise to my elf. And then I started havi g my anxiety really bad. And ike, that was my mental low. So then bringing myself up from t at I literally started. A lot of them are not self help books but like I've been listening to your podcasts or like growth pod asts because I just need some hing that says, like, that repea s to myself, like, You are awe ome, you are worthy and you are like you are strong enough to su port yourself and you are s rong enough good. I, I have been very strong my whole life. But like the past year and a half, I've just disintegrated. Like I've just gone from my such r ally strong person. Like, I'll tand up for myself, like you an't call me any names to blah, lah, blah, blah, blah to le ting everyone walk over me. And so I just started telling mysel I'm like, you are strong again, like he people can be negati e to you, but you just try to i nore him. But like someone tol me, this is like, so random. Bu um, one of my friends on Inst gram messaged me and said, He, if anyone like calls you a na e or says something negati e or negative lead to you, if they were saying it and an ther language, would you under tand them? And so like, I've been just re mixing l ttle conversations in my brain I'm like, Okay, well, that on was negative. That's okay. They were talking to me in a compl tely different language. Like, they were talking to me in Spani h or like, they were talking to e in German, like, I on't understand, like, they can call me whatever. I don't kn w, I don't I don't, I don't hear him. I don't listen to them. Lik, to be honest. Like, I feel like I've been in my whole m own world, the past like four months, like I am o t of everyone else's junk. I'm o t of their drama. I don't list n, I don't even listen to them when they're speaking aroun me. Like, if they're not speaki g to me, I'm not paying atten ion. And that might sound very self centered and very, very sel ish. But it has helped me imme sely in my healing. Like, I d not pay attention to anyone. I live in my own little w

Laurie Edmundson: 44:00

Well, and that's that's the thing, right? It's like, sometimes that's what you got to do. And if that's part of your healing journey, that's totally fine. Right? Like, especially right now, when the world is kind of collapsing around us. How do you you know, you said, Oh, you know, my mental health has been worse in the last year and a half like, well, I wonder what happened in the last year and a half? would have made your mental health worse, like, Oh, you mean the world falling below our feet? Like, okay, well, maybe that's part of it. And I mean, I don't know you're in Iowa. you said

Payge Duerre: 44:28

Yeah, yeah.

Laurie Edmundson: 44:29

don't know how bad it is there. But I mean, it's not great. In general to like, be experiencing this weird thing where like the disconnection is happening. And like, I assume with a chronic health issue, you're probably even more concerned because like, you do have some extra potential to like, get sick or whatever.

Payge Duerre: 44:47

It could, but I really haven't given any shits.

Laurie Edmundson: 44:50

Well, there you go. Right. And sometimes that's how we go. Oh,

Payge Duerre: 44:54

well, and that's how that's helped me. Like everyone's like, okay, let's double mask up. Let's do that. This, this and this to protect ourselves and protect everyone else. I'm like, Okay, I'll protect everyone else. But if you're gonna make me do all this shit for myself, I've done that my entire life and I'm done. I'm done with it, stop making me do it for myself, because it's not that important to me. Like, I've done it my whole life if you're gonna make me, like, I'm sick of being forced to do things. And that is that is my most difficult. That is one of my most difficult issues is that I hate being forced. Not even just with feelings, but with all of that health stuff. Like, I get it, and I will protect other people, but I'm not going to do it. Because you say like, Oh, I'm gonna do this, or you're gonna die like, Okay.

Laurie Edmundson: 45:42

Yeah, I've been on the verge of that my whole life. So I'm not like, super concerned by that anymore. Yeah, pretty much. Believe it or not. We've been talking for a long time. Now. Is there anything that you would like to kind of like end on? Or is there anything that we haven't touched on that you would like to chat about?

Payge Duerre: 46:02

I'm not sure.

Sara Amundson: 46:06

I am kind of interested in that. Like, any future things that you're looking forward to doing for your mental health, do you want to do like a dialectical behavioral therapy program on the world opens up? Do you want to do like, like, Yeah, tell me when the world opens up? What do you want to do for yourself?

Payge Duerre: 46:28

Um, I have actually really wanted to do DBT, I have been trying to find a psychologist for after like, being able to see in person and stuff. And so like, there are a couple that are about a half hour away from me. And so I have been talking and thinking about going there, um, relatively soon, ish. I just, I prefer to go someplace where I can go in person. So like, that's what I've been really waiting for. But, um, yeah, honestly, like, the way you talk about DVT on your Instagram, and everything. just sounds so great. And like, the way you guys talked about it earlier in some earlier episodes, and stuff, just I feel like a lot of things are necessary. And I feel like I actually do some of those healing, you know, regulation, things just without thinking about them. Like without learning about what, what the actual title is, and how to actually go through, I

Sara Amundson: 47:32

feel like I do a couple of those.

Payge Duerre: 47:35

Yeah, you probably do. But I would really, really like to learn, I also kind of want to do a group therapy, I feel like being in a group setting with other people who may or may or not, may or may not feel the same. But like, I've never ever done a group therapy like to be frank, and I think talking about my own issues in front of other people would almost make me think about them in an in, in other people's feet, like not through mine as well. But okay, I'm sitting here talking about my story, but I'm also going to be sitting in one of their seats, think like trying to listen as if I was one of them listening to someone else. I feel like, that'd be just so neat.

Laurie Edmundson: 48:23

That was a life changing thing for me is like, I don't think I would be where I was if I only had individual therapy. And group therapy is not something that everybody likes. And like there's a lot of people that just like, absolutely hate it. But I'm a relatively like social person. So like, for me, it was exactly what I needed.

Sara Amundson: 48:40

Hey, are you registered for Super feelers?

Payge Duerre: 48:43

No,

Laurie Edmundson: 48:44

but it's a group of people who have either BPD or live with strong emotions, and just kind of talking about the skills that they either inherently use. So not everybody's done dialectical behavior therapy, but either the skills that they just kind of inherently use or skills that are through DBT. And it's facilitated by Sara and I, it's free. I know it's online so that's not necessarily what you're looking for. But if it is something you're interested in, like you should totally register because it's kind of what you're saying and like even if you come once like you don't it's like a drop in right so you can come once and be like oh no, this is not it because it's online or whatever and yeah, it's it That's exactly what I was gonna say Sarah That's really funny.

Sara Amundson: 49:24

does not surprise me that we thought the same thing.

Payge Duerre: 49:27

Yeah.

Laurie Edmundson: 49:30

Awesome. Well, Payge, where can we find you? So like social media, anything like that? Is there anything that you kind of want to plug um, I

Payge Duerre: 49:39

have my Instagram it used to be @hotbagmama but I changed it to be more personal so it's @paygeshappypage but

Laurie Edmundson: 49:50

Actually, I know that it has changed from hot bag Mama, but I couldn't remember what it was. So that's awesome. And we'll make sure that we put that in the show notes as well so that we can find you highly highly, highly recommend following Paige because her page is really funny is like really, really eye opening about what it's like to kind of live in her shoes and it's really awesome.

Payge Duerre: 50:19

Wish everyone like picture living in other people's shoes like that's, that's like, the easiest thing to do. I personally feel like I can look at someone be like, Okay, I know that from my spirit standpoint, what you're going through does not seem that hard but you know, I'm gonna step my feet, put him in your shoes and be like, Okay, this is very difficult. I'm very sorry you're going through it. It's not that fucking hard.

Laurie Edmundson: 50:45

That's one of the things that drives me nuts about people who like judge people who are living unsheltered or homeless, or use substances and they're like, well, that could never be me. And I'm like, no, it for sure could be you like,

Sara Amundson: 50:58

you take one hit of heroin.

Laurie Edmundson: 51:01

I was gonna say like, you have a back injury after a car accident and then you become dependent like, Are you freaking kidding me? That could be anyway, that's a rant for another day.

Sara Amundson: 51:11

Well, Paige, we absolutely love you were just obsessed with you. And I want a second what Laurie said, I've learned so much about the intersection between fiscal health and mental health through your page. And yeah, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. It's like, I feel valid. So this is I tell everybody, like podcasting is so selfish because it helps me feel validated. But like, I feel really validated by the fact that you identify with kiddos as in the same way that I do, because I'm just like, yes, yes, they I see them doing what I'm doing. And we're doing it. That's really it. It's so funny.

Payge Duerre: 51:54

It makes me feel like a kid. But thank you guys, I had so much fun. Like I literally love listening to all of your guys's POC. I just really appreciate you guys as well. Awesome.

Laurie Edmundson: 52:07

Thank you so much, Payge. And yeah, we'll t lk to you

Sara Amundson: 52:20

Hi, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the bold, beautiful borderline podcast. Lori and I are so grateful that you're here with us on this journey. And we can't wait to dive into more topics in the future with you all about borderline, and even have some more fun and exciting guests to join us on the podcast. If you really enjoyed this episode, we would love if you would rate review and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. We would also love to see you interact with us on social media and on our Patreon page, the links to that are included in the show notes. So check us out there. We would be incredibly honored to get to know you all as you get to know us and our recovery stories. We love you and we'll see you next time.