Laurie’s Biggest Shame: Eating Disorders 1

Warning: This episode is hard as is very likely to be triggering to people who have experiences with disordered eating. Please listen with self love and take good care of yourself. 

We have debated not publishing this episode many times as it is less about recovery and more about currently living with mental illness and actively struggling. It was the hardest episode we have ever recorded. That said, in some ways we hope that this episode offers a glimpse into the reality of really tough conversations, boundary setting, and the deep shame and struggles that can come from mental illnesses like eating disorders. 

In this episode you will hear a lot of dysregulation, resistance, and resentment. Please know that Laurie and Sara are good - this is the reality of being in close friendships with BPD. We still love each other very much and have discussed how difficult this was for both of us at great lengths since recording. 

Resources: 

• @binge.nutritionist on Instagram
• https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org
• Body positivity movement
  Health at every size
  National Eating Disorder Association
  National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders - free support groups

You can find Laurie and Sara on Instagram to follow their day to day lives even further @laurieanned and @saraswellnessway. You can also find the podcast on IG @boldbeautifulborderline

You can also find Sara's business as a Mental Health Clinician and mental health coach at thewellnesswayllc.com

If you like the show we would love if you could rate, subscribe and support us on Patreon.

For mental health supports:

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or Live Online Chat

SAMHSA Treatment Referral Helpline, 1-877-SAMHSA7 (1-877-726-4727)

OR find a local warmline to you at https://screening.mhanational.org/content/need-talk-someone-warmlines 

Transcript

Sara Amundson: 0:30

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the bold, beautiful borderline podcast. I'm Sarah and I'm here with my best friend in the entire world, Laurie. And today we have a episode that I think is probably been highly sought after. I think that a lot of people have been waiting for us to really do a deep dive in this topic. We touch on it a lot in our episodes, but we haven't yet gone all the way in. So today we are going all the way in on disordered eating. Before we do that, though, I just want to stop and say we have two new Patreon subscribers that we are so so grateful for Danielle and Leslie, thank you so much for your love and support. We are obsessed with you guys. This podcast is such a passion project for us. And the fact that people even listen is amazing. So your support in that way means the world to us. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we're taking a deep breath. How are you?

Laurie Edmundson: 1:32

I'm okay, so full disclosure to everybody listening, this episode is going, I can pretty much guarantee you this episode is going to be the hardest episode for me to record. I feel like I'm already about to cry, but at the same time, that's okay. And I'm not at any way being forced to record this episode. But I think that in some ways, it will be helpful for me, because a lot of the things that I'll likely say today are things that there's nobody in the world who knows them. And and that's a scary thought, because I'm usually really open about everything. And for some reason, this is the part of my life where I have the most shame and stuff. So bear with us, this will probably not be just like a one off episode because this topic resonates really deeply with both Sarah and I. And to be honest, my anxiety around this topic will probably take up most of the space in this episode. And so I might need to do another episode where Sarah can have most of the space.

Sara Amundson: 2:40

Yeah, when we first got on the call, I said to Laurie, like, Listen, like, we're just gonna hit record, we're not gonna prep for this, we're not gonna sit and let the anxiety increase and grow like we're gonna do this. Obviously, there's something here for you, right that we like have to just tap into, there's never going to be the right moment. And I think it's important for us to show people that are still sometimes in the thick of it. But hopefully they will hear the processing and the skills use that goes on. Laurie, let's talk eating disorder. Okay, first of all, I just want to acknowledge that that there's a lot coming up for you. And the last time or maybe it was two times ago, we recorded we like did a good chunk of time around. It was a substance use episode, and I kind of landed us on eating disorders. And we hung up the call and I said, Are you actively engaged in your eating disorder right now. And I just saw this like, look on your face. And I remember being like, this is so fresh, I don't. So I'm anxious for you. I just want to be upfront about that. Tell me about how you are feeling?

Laurie Edmundson: 4:07

so for the record, I've never been diagnosed with an eating disorder. And so I don't I'm not one for like self diagnosis necessarily. I mean, I am a hypochondriac. So like any of my family listening to this can be like yeah, but you are one for self diagnosis, but like I've never been formally diagnosed. However, I 100% engage in disordered eating and have for my whole life and would have met many diagnostic criteria throughout my youth and, and to today, and I think that that is the one piece that is stuck with me for a really long time. What's really interesting, and I think I would like to go through like my kind of history with this stuff. But one of the really interesting things is I have this vivid memory of what I stopped self harming. And that's when my eating got worse. And I realized, oh my god, it is connected, hands 100% connected, I would have been a way more after I stopped self harming. And I remember sitting at metrotown SkyTrain station with headphones in going like, I feel like maybe I should just start self harming again, because that would prevent these binge episodes. And like that's that was probably like, eight years ago, right like that. It's not recent, but that's kind of how ingrained it is, right? And how all these symptoms are so connected.

Sara Amundson: 5:45

Well, yeah, the thing that people don't realize about disordered eating is that it's almost never about the food or the body. It's all about the control. Right?

Laurie Edmundson: 5:52

Well, so maybe I'll start with like the beginning. So I have a report from when I was 11, or 12, from the, um, the Children's Hospital up here. And I had gone into get tested for bipolar and all this kind of stuff. And in my report, I identified as a 11, or 12 year old, I can't stop eating. I like it's really distressing to me that those weren't the exact words but essentially that and it was never dealt with never even addressed in the report. It was like a direct quote from me, but it was never talked about elsewhere. And so that would have been probably like grade seven, grade eight. In grade nine ish. I started using laxatives like abusing laxatives. And again, this comes back if you've listened to previous episodes, I have this like intense fear of throwing up. So to me, the like classic Ballymena wasn't an option. And so I abused laxatives instead. And so I mean, I feel like that in itself would have qualified me for an eating disorder.

Sara Amundson: 6:59

Absolutely.

Laurie Edmundson: 7:00

Yeah. So, but again, never diagnosed. I think to be perfectly honest with you, I think it was as a girl who's always been bigger. People don't take disordered eating as seriously. So, so Sara has talked about this in the past, but like, you know, you've had a pretty serious eating disorder.

Sara Amundson: 7:20

I've never been underweight.

Laurie Edmundson: 7:22

Oh, really? Oh, but you were like, really sick, right?

Sara Amundson: 7:28

Yeah, I went from 260 pounds to 159 pounds in eight months.

Laurie Edmundson: 7:36

Okay, okay. So yeah, it was that it was significant. Okay. And then I would also like to say, and we haven't had this conversation before, but if we can not use numbers, that helps me.

Sara Amundson: 7:48

Yeah. Thank you. Sorry. I was just trying to give you a picture of like, never in my life. Have I been underweight?

Laurie Edmundson: 7:55

Okay, no, that's good to know. I thought that that's what had happened. But I again, I try really hard to not think about the numbers. And so I just need to set that boundary right now.

Sara Amundson: 8:03

Yeah, I think that's a good boundary to set. And, and it's interesting for me, because a part of my recovery is being willing to use numbers and being able to dis associate between a number being good or bad. So anyways, yeah, no, never been underweight in my life and totally resonate with the eating disorder at Every Size stuff, because I couldn't be diagnosed with anorexia despite being anorexic.

Laurie Edmundson: 8:34

Okay. Yeah. So you so you were anorexic, for sure. And then that's where the health conditions. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Sorry. That's my bad. I shouldn't have assumed that. And to be fair, like if you're listening and don't know a lot about the Lima specifically, most people that have, believe me are not underweight. And I think the issue was because I wasn't throwing up to purge, and I wasn't losing weight. People at that time weren't recognizing the fact that this was clearly bullying. So that's, let's say, that was grade nine or 10. And there was one person in my life who knew that this was happening, and I would take I worked at McDonald's at the time, and I literally spent, like, all of my money that I earned on laxatives, to the point where I can't have laxatives at my house anymore, because it's such a triggering even walking past.

Sara Amundson: 9:22

Like, I was just gonna ask for context how many laxatives is that? Like a day or a week or?

Laurie Edmundson: 9:29

I don't even remember to be honest, but I was way more than you're supposed to be taking.

Sara Amundson: 9:35

Okay, so I could see how me being sick the last few weeks and having really bad diarrhea could have been really triggering to you. And I literally had no idea. I don't want I don't say or knows any of this, but I am so sorry. I've been telling you about my unintentional sickness.

Laurie Edmundson: 9:54

No, no. And you know what's really interesting is um, it's while we're talking about Sarah's diarrhea that If that doesn't bug me at all, I'm like, I'm chill about that. But what was really funny was both you and I hope this is okay with me sharing this both you and I said to each other, oh, I kind of like having that because then at least I feel like I'm losing weight. And like, so that to the point where like, I sometimes I don't mind getting sick, as long as I'm not throwing up because I'm like, Okay, well, whatever. I'm not doing it myself. Yeah, so I don't remember, like, specific amounts of laxatives or whatever. But anyways, that was that was definitely an issue. And I was buying more than I, you know, more than average, 14 year old should have been buying and spending all my money on it.

Sara Amundson: 10:38

14 year olds shouldn't even know what laxatives are. Right? So to me, I'm like, Where did you learn about that?

Laurie Edmundson: 10:44

Yeah, I don't know. Actually, I really don't know. But so I had one friend and I this, this friend is probably like the one person in my entire life. And she's not even my friend anymore that that knew about this at the time. And she told our gym teacher. And so my gym teacher kind of talked me through it. And he basically was like, you know, do you have any with you? And like I always did. And so I gave him the stuff that I had. And anyways, it was never addressed, like, necessarily properly. But at the same time, it did help because I was caught is basically what it was.

Sara Amundson: 11:19

Yeah, you had to confront the behavior.

Laurie Edmundson: 11:22

Yeah. So I mean, thank you to that friend, who is probably never going to listen to this, because I haven't talked to her in like 10 years. But I appreciate you bringing that to him, even though I was really, really mad at the time. So there was that and then probably grade 1110 or 11.

Sara Amundson: 11:43

Can I point something out to that I think people don't understand is that the length to which we go to protect the eating disorder is wild, it becomes your best friend. So Laurie, being like, Fuck you, bitch, I'm gonna throw I don't know what happened. But this is an assumption based on my own BPD I could see how young Laurie would be like, fuck you bitch, like I'm gonna protect my eating disorder at all costs. Like, don't you dare tell this teacher?

Laurie Edmundson: 12:08

Yeah, I don't remember how it went down. But I obviously wasn't thrilled about it. And I should clarify that the the fact that we're not friends anymore has nothing to do with that. It was just we were in grade nine. Right? Like, I mean, it's been a long time. But anyway, so that was a thing that I that's probably one of the things that I'm the most nervous about talking about to be perfectly honest. So I'm glad that that's out of the out of the system. And to be fair, I actually think that it has like, hurt. I mean, that's not good for you. So I would not recommend because I do think that it causes problems to this day. So in grade 10, or 11, I started Weight Watchers, which is you know, every everybody's a thing. And I wasn't it wasn't a situation where my mom made me go to Weight Watchers or anything like that, which is a very like, common thing. But I worked at McDonald's with some of my friends. And we were all a little bit overweight. And so it was just a thing that we all wanted to do, because everybody wanted to be skinny. And of course, this was long before like, be looking like a Kardashian and having a huge boat was cool, right? This was like when looking like Paris Hilton was cool. And so we started Weight Watchers, and I loved it. Loved it. I lost so much weight so quickly that the school counselors started, like basically trying to intervene and be like, we think you have anorexia like you need to eat. And I was like, No, I'm eating, like, look at all the stuff I'm eating. But it just worked incredibly for me. We watched it. And my friends and I were doing it at the same time. But I was the one who like, I did not go over my points. So it was like, Oh, well let's go out for ice cream. And it was like, Oh, I can't because I'm not going to go with my points whereas everybody else had like the flexibility that is normal. And so they would always kind of like not make fun of me but just be like oh my god Laurie takes this so seriously, because I like did not mess around and did super well. The Weight Watchers loved every minute of it lost so much weight was skinny, essentially. I mean, I mean I'm never gonna be skinny. That's just how my body type is. But I was like, I was small. And of course I still hated my body. Right and that's the thing that I think Sarah said this in a previous episode like no number is ever gonna make you happy. And that goes to weight that goes to grades that goes to social media followers, right? So I ended up quitting Weight Watchers because they switched their system they seem to have this like annoying habit of like switching their like systems up. And I didn't like how the new points worked because I gained or I didn't lose weight fast enough or I gained weight. I can't remember what it was. So I decided I wasn't gonna do Weight Watchers anymore. After probably a couple years. Doing it really, really successfully and like I wanted to be a leader and like I was probably I was still in high school at this point, like, how kind of gross is that? But anyway, um, then I found my favorite app, My Fitness Pal. And I thought

Sara Amundson: 15:15

I could throw the fuck up, keep going.

Laurie Edmundson: 15:19

So My Fitness Pal, I found that and I was like, Well, why am I paying for Weight Watchers when I can use my fitness pal. So I proceeded to lose like another decent amount of weight using My Fitness Pal and I started running. And I was by far the skinniest that I've ever been. And I was working on my feet, I was working retail, working on my feet you know, 40 hours a week, and then I would also be counting my calories like crazy. And not eating healthy, just counting my calories like crazy. And I would like run to the pool, go swim, workout in the gym at the pool, and then walk home, like you know what I mean. Like I would it was that like insane amount of exercise on top of the restricting calories. And and I was still not happy. I was starting a really like shitty relationship with somebody that was not. I mean, it's the guy that I've talked about on this podcast before. And I looked great. And I felt like shit. And I hated everything about myself

Sara Amundson: 16:30

to do start to have like cardiac issues or hair loss or any heart palpitations.

Laurie Edmundson: 16:38

Well, I have heart issues like To this day, okay, I don't know if they have anything to do with weight loss. I think that honestly, they probably have mostly to do with anxiety. But I have had like, on and off issues with heart stuff for my life. But again, I have a fucking panic disorder, you're going to have a heart rate issue if you have a panic disorder. So that was when I was at my lowest weight. And I have this the same day. Remember I talked about in another episode where I went to go see m&m and Squamish Music Festival. And I was at my friend's house, we were getting ready. And I put on this bikini top and like a skirt. And I looked in the mirror, and I was like, I think I'm too fat to wear this. And I have a picture of myself that haunts me to this day. And I where I am, I literally look like I have six pack like, I am so small. And I remember that morning being like, I don't think I could wear this like I'm too fat. And I was 100 pounds, let more than 100 pounds less than I am now. And I went and I felt kind of uncomfortable about it. And you know, again, literally 100 pounds less. And then I started because at a certain point counting calories doesn't do it. Right, you get to a stagnant point where I mean, unless you're like severely restricting. And I will say that I've never restricted past like, I was gonna say 1200 calories, but it's probably 1000 calories.

Sara Amundson: 18:08

Even, even at like 400 calories a day your body retains the weight.

Laurie Edmundson: 18:13

Yeah, because it's starving. Yeah. So. So like I again, I never got to the point where like, I wouldn't be diagnosed with anorexia. I don't think I had anorexia. I think that I've had bilim ik tendencies and binge eating. I binge eat 100%. But

Sara Amundson: 18:28

can we also say though, that like disordered eating is disordered eating?

Laurie Edmundson: 18:33

Yeah, totally.

Sara Amundson: 18:34

And, okay, part of this part of this episode is Laurie and I are going to trigger each other. I've already triggered, Laurie, already is already, Laurie's already triggered me and I just like want to call to the consciousness that my eating disorder is trying to compete with yours. And it's really hard on me right now.

Laurie Edmundson: 18:54

I can see that.

Sara Amundson: 18:55

I'm like, really struggling with it. And I, so I just want to call that to the consciousness. But like, because neither of us would would have been diagnosed with anorexia.

Laurie Edmundson: 19:05

Yeah, cuz we didn't lose our period or whatever.

Sara Amundson: 19:09

We just didn't have the BMI for it. You have to have a really low BMI you have to be underweight to have anorexia, so both of us would have qualified for a binge eating disorder. And that's always been something that my eating disorder was really mad about that I could never qualify for anorexia. Just I'm just because you wanted to. Yeah, cuz that that was like, Well, we've made it now.

Laurie Edmundson: 19:33

Yeah. 100% Look how good I am at this. Yeah, this episode.

Sara Amundson: 19:39

Can I just tell you how much I love yo, like, I love you so much. And I'm so fucking like, proud of you. I'm gonna shut up now. I'm gonna keep my triggers in check. Please keep going.

Laurie Edmundson: 19:50

I love you too. And this is we knew that this was going to be a triggering episode. And we both are comfortable enough with each other to know that if we need to Take a break, we take a break. So if you need a break, you tell me. And I think that that's one of the reasons that I don't like numbers. is because of that, like, competitive because I think honestly, I think that a lot of people, if not most people with disordered eating in some way, have a competitive nature to them. Because you're either competing with yourself or you're competing with others. Whether or not you're doing it intentionally or not.

Sara Amundson: 20:27

You absolutely Are you you literally get off on the numbers changing and so you start to become obsessed with numbers. I also think it's worth noting that most people that have an eating disorder likely qualify for some sort of compulsive behavior, whether it's OCD or ocpd. Like that's, and I don't know if you identify as having OCD, Laurie, that is none of my business, but you have some compulsive tendencies. I'm not gonna lie.

Laurie Edmundson: 20:55

What I have never heard that before. No, I am like, Yeah, actually, it's really funny. Because my counselor now is the first person to have ever said that to me. She's like, I think you have you may not have like OCD in the classic sense, but like, you have some serious OCD problems. And it's mostly in like, rumination and stuff anyways, we should do that another time. But yeah, I mean, anybody that has done any work with me ever knows that I have some OCD tendencies not in not in the like, Oh, you're so OCD and like judging people for that or like joking about it, but like, legitimately I get I have a very big problem with like, letting stuff go and I and the circular rumination piece is really problematic.

Sara Amundson: 21:39

Yeah, we should because it gives me anxiety all the time that I'm failing you and letting go. Because I you guys, I have never on time for anything. And while I'm always like, in the back of my mind, Laurie hates me, Laurie is gonna break up with me. I'm never gonna be good enough for Lori's like timelines. Like, I just, it's crazy. It's so stupid.

Laurie Edmundson: 21:57

And then there's me going like, Oh my god, I wish that I could just get over this, but I really can't and like, Oh my god, okay, well, if the podcast is gonna be a day late, then like, I can't do this, like, I'm gonna, like, people are gonna hate us. So I need to do it. And I don't want Sarah to feel pressure anyways. Well, this is a rambling, but yeah, Sarah, where? You are not feeling me ever. You are the love of my life? Um, okay, where was I on the eating disorder piece. Right. So the, the calorie counting was working, obviously, it mostly does. But at a certain point, I wasn't losing enough weight because I was basically at a state of stagnation. And, of course, I was weighing myself every single day. I mean, of course, what would you expect? So then I started exercising all the time. And the really shitty thing is that I genuinely like exercise. And it's taken me a really long time to learn to exercise not to lose weight, or burn calories or make up for food that I ate. And so at this point in my life, I was 100%. Working out to burn calories, no question. And I think because of that, I was deriving a lot less joy from working out even though it did bring me joy. But I mean, I am notorious for injuring myself, and then running on an injury. To the point where a couple years, two years ago, I was running, we I was starting a brand new training program for 10k to try out my speed. And the first day, I like busted my ankle. And it hurts so bad, I could not figure it out. So I ended up having to go to the ER and all this stuff, cuz I like could not put weight on it. And like I have, I have like, twisted my ankle a million times. And for some reason, this was like significantly different. And when they did all the scans, they found that I had a bone spur. Because I had been running on damaged ankles for so long. I remember there's a really big run up here at the Vancouver Sun run. And I had twisted my ankle so bad, right? While I was training for it. It was literally black and blue. I went to my friend's house in the morning, who's who's like a marathon runner, she wrapped it up for me, I ran the entire 10k got my best time on an ankle that was literally double the size, it should be black and blue. couldn't feel my toe. It was wild. And so

Sara Amundson: 24:21

I would have never let you run that.

Laurie Edmundson: 24:24

Right. But at the time, keep in mind I was also dating a guy who said oh, well, you're gonna get fat if you don't run. And I was in the midst of this obsession about calories. And I was also in the midst of obsession about runtimes. And so I didn't feel like I had a choice. I wasn't going to not do the run. And I wasn't going to walk it because what am I like, I'm not going to walk I have now. Anyway, so I was basically just working out and eating fewer calories. And then mental health happens. I started taking. It's not Adderall, but it's like Adderall. And it caused me a lot of really bad obsessions, and I was really messed up. But of course, I was super stoked to be prescribed Adderall, because it's a frickin methamphetamine. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna lose more weight. This is awesome. But instead, it really like triggered a lot of like, really negative feelings. And so I started eating my feelings more than I ever have. And I didn't get out of that cycle. So I started Weight Watchers, again, didn't work for me because I was benching and not counting my I wasn't counting properly. So then I went back to My Fitness Pal, then I did whole 30. To be fair, I'll talk about whole 30 later. But I actually, I think that there is some value in doing whole 30. But I'm not promoting any diet, because I'm trying really hard to not promote diets at all in my own head or to anybody else, that I met Aaron, and I was still doing Weight Watchers at the time, but he was doing keto. And he is really good at keto, because he loves me to cheese. I don't love meat and cheese. I mean, I don't hate meat and cheese, but I can't eat nothing. But meat and cheese. It's not not for me. Not to mention, I don't actually think that that's a healthy diet in any way. But anyways, it's effective for the three months that you're able to not eat bread, and then you end up gaining twice as much weight like most

Sara Amundson: 26:27

and you have a fucking heart attack because you put so much fat in your body.

Laurie Edmundson: 26:31

Yeah, yeah.

Sara Amundson: 26:33

I want to confirm for everybody listening, I mean fat as an animal fat, so much meat and cheese, not good for your heart, not not like body fat.

Laurie Edmundson: 26:42

Can you imagine? We're just like start fat shaming people off is not quite what we're getting at. I knew what you meant. I'm sure everybody else did. I remember at one point, like a couple months into us dating, we decided to do a weight loss competition with our friends, which I have done so many times. And it is so bad for me that I have now committed to never do that again. And we won, because I started counting calories, eating whole 30 and keto at the same time. Which is like insane. You're just like basically eating like chicken breasts at that point on broccoli with like coconut oil. And yeah, so we won the weight loss competition, and then I gained twice as much weight back. And it's really interesting, Sarah, I'm comfortable sharing it with you. I'm probably not comfortable sharing with everybody. But because I have tracked on My Fitness Pal for so long. I have a very, very, very interesting graph where it goes down, and then it goes up more and then it goes down and then it goes up more and then it goes down and then it goes up more for the last 15 years of my life.

Sara Amundson: 27:46

Do you still have it on your phone? Listen, I'm gonna get him and I'm gonna delete mine. you delete your worse.

Laurie Edmundson: 27:56

No, I legit don't think I can.

Sara Amundson: 28:00

What is holding you back?

Laurie Edmundson: 28:02

I like having my weight history in there.

Sara Amundson: 28:05

Why?

Laurie Edmundson: 28:09

Bitch,

Sara Amundson: 28:10

that's disordered.

Laurie Edmundson: 28:12

I know.

Sara Amundson: 28:13

I know. But, but that but that but this is what we do. Right? This is what we do. Like that is that's disordered. Who cares? Yeah, no.

Laurie Edmundson: 28:22

100% the issue so this Okay, let me finish. You're gonna be mad at me. I'm not mad at you. No, I'm not No, no, no, you're you're right, obviously, but you still have it on your phone too.

Sara Amundson: 28:34

I do. And that's why I'm saying like, I let's delete it. I don't have my weight history on my phone. I've deleted that. But I do have the app on my phone as this lingering fight with my eating disorder. And I think that we need to win the fight man.

Laurie Edmundson: 28:52

So this is where I struggle. This is where I struggle the most because it's the most fresh. Okay, first of all, COVID not great. Like the I lost like you know, 20/30 pounds, the beginning of COVID because I was like, Oh perfect. We're not eating out. We're not doing all this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the actual reality of like the fact that this is the world we live in, caught up with me and then it went off the rails. Of course it did. That's how it goes. You can't if you restrict yourself it's going to come back and bite you in the ass and this is what I have to keep reminding myself over and over and over again. Of course the gyms were also closed and I wasn't getting exercise and then I started losing my like drive to even like go for a walk and like bla bla bla bla bla so the part that I have a hard time with and I should say I am not currently counting calories. However, I have definitely thought about it in the last little bit because this is the heaviest I've ever been. And I don't know if all Not thinking about it's kind of like self harm. We're like, every once in a while that crosses my mind. And I know I'm not going to do it, but it crosses my mind. And I will probably do that for the rest of my life. I legitimately don't think that I will stop gaining weight at this point, because my binges are so bad now. Like, I hide it from Aaron. Like, like that kind of thing, right? where it's like, it's like, literally like that. And then there's no purging behavior, which is good. But also, like,

Sara Amundson: 30:41

Are you restricting during the day? No, I don't think so. It's, it's just a pure binge.

Laurie Edmundson: 30:46

Yeah, yeah. So this is where I struggle the most. And, and this is where it's the most real. So I don't believe that. And, of course, I'm not like, binge eating every single day all day, but like, it's, it happens more than it should, by a longshot, and COVID has not helped. And then working vaccine clinics all the time did not help either, because I was on the road, didn't know where I was gonna be the next day didn't have like, I had to eat my car. So that I was like, well, I may as well just go get Tim Hortons or McDonald's or whatever, and it just escalates. So the part that I struggle with the most is when the my weight actually impacts my quality of life, not because I want to be skinny, but because I want to be able to move like I want to be able to move, right and, and again, like you can, you can be bigger, and you can be super active. And I have been bigger and super active. And I like I love every minute of it. But the gyms closing, and then getting out of the routine, and then gaining extra weight and then going back to the gym and being like, Oh my god, I can't believe like this is like things get a lot harder when you put on 20 pounds, a lot harder, right? Or more than 20, or whatever it is. So this is where I have a hard time is that I know that BMI is stupid. I know that BMI was like studied on a bunch of white dudes in like, however long ago, like it doesn't it's not relevant to like your actual health. I just want to be able to move like, I want to. And I think that in that way. I can't continue to gain weight in the way that I am. And I do realize that I in well, so this is the thing, I follow this incredible person on Instagram, I will make sure that we take her in her Instagram post about this episode, who's really helped me a lot during the pandemic and I don't like actually subscribed to her programs or anything, but I just like follow her. And I just like really like her and she's all about food freedom and like binge recovery and whatever. But the issue with food freedom is you can't have food freedom if you have even like the slightest inkling that you want to lose weight because then that's not food freedom. And, and that's where I have a really hard time. Like at this point, I'm always going to be bigger, I'm always going to have a BMI over whatever it's supposed to be. That's just who I am. It's not surprising. And I'm totally cool with that. At this point. I've come to terms with a lot of that. There are days where I feel more confident now than I ever have. Right? Maybe not like this week. But like in the last like year or two. But how do you overcome an eating disorder when you're this overweight and it's negatively impacting your life not because you want to be skinny, but because you have at a certain point it does affect your health. And that is my constant struggle to try and figure out what the balance is. And that's why I don't delete My Fitness Pal.

Sara Amundson: 33:47

What do you want for me right now?

Laurie Edmundson: 33:52

I don't know! I appreciate you asking the question but like It's so fucking frustrating because I mean, to be fair, I have I found really good doctors, or I haven't I have a nurse practitioner now. But now she has to get me off her caseload. So I have an appointment on Friday to get a new nurse practitioner and I'm literally like, Okay, so how can I dress to make it look like I'm not a fat slob because if I'm a fat slob, they might discredit everything that I say and having mental illness, depression and being overweight. Like I have literally gone into a doctor and been like, I think I need to take antidepressants again. Like look, I've done all of the therapy like I'm really good at my mental health. I know what I needed. And they said like, well, maybe if you ate better, maybe if you exercised and I'm like, oh actually go to the gym like six days a week. Because I have because I was using that as like a as a bit purge, essentially. And it's just so difficult to know what to do, and it's so frustrating and then, like we got engaged and like Aaron's a bigger dude, too, right? And, and I do really, really, really want to say that like eating disorder. I'm not I'm not saying that Aaron has any Eating Disorder I would never like to put that on him. But they do not discriminate. You can be skinny you can be fat, you can be male, you can be female, you can be whatever gender you want to be. You can be old, you could be young, that we got engaged and the next day or that night, instead of celebrating and having a glass of champagne or whatever. We were like, Oh shit, I guess we got to start dieting tomorrow. The fuck is that? Honestly, that is the last thing that we should have been thinking about. And we both were like, yeah, I guess we got to start dieting tomorrow. That is how ingrained This is. It's gross and I hate it and I just like it just breaks me. So I don't know what I want from you, Sara, I'm very sorry. But I appreciate you listening because I have not said any of this in one fell swoop to anybody in my life.

Sara Amundson: 35:49

Well, in your defense, you really didn't do it in one swoop because I interrupt so much.

Laurie Edmundson: 35:56

Well in one sitting like I don't know if a single human being in the world knows all of this. Except now like hundreds of you do. So thank you very much.

Sara Amundson: 36:06

Thanks, guys. Thanks for creating space before Um, so I do want to point out we're not here to problem solve Lori's eating disorder. We're not going to come up with any solutions or answers tonight right? That's not what this podcast is about. This podcast is about normalizing. My attempt to get Laurie to delete her My Fitness Pal maybe it was in poor taste, right? I don't show up to this, this podcast. as a clinician, I show up as her friend and as someone living with a mental illness. If Laurie was a client I was working with I would have responded differently. But I think it's worth noting how black and white the thinking is around food. And that's the eating disorder and the borderline personality disorder are so fucking and are connected because Laurie is talking about swinging between severe bingeing behavior and severe dieting or restricting behavior. And she part of why she can't get herself it seems to me if I'm wrong, Lori can't get herself to delete the My Fitness Pal is that she feels like the dieting or the starving, or the restricting or whatever you want to call it is the only solution to the weight loss, right? And so it's, it's this swinging back and forth, and there's very little gray in it. And there's already very little gray and borderline. There's no fucking gray and disordered eating. And that is what a lot of nutritional counseling psychoeducation and Ed therapy did for me. And I Laurie would love to see you get at specific support and get a diagnosis.

Laurie Edmundson: 37:54

Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack there. So the piece about black and white thinking I'm going to start there. And then we can talk about getting support after because I think that's a whole other ballgame. Actually, I have a really funny story about trying to get support. So don't let me forget to talk about getting support after because I have tried at it did not go well. But the black and white thinking is something that I know we didn't prepare for this at all. And we wanted it to be off the cuff. But I did think about wanting to say that. So thank you for bringing that up is I am black and white thinking in most areas of my life. I have BPD naturally, right like I mean, I have a hard time being in the gray. I work really hard to be in the gray. But that will be like a very like long term struggle with eating disorders though. You're right. I have an incredibly different difficult time. In in every way. So I'm either eating super healthy, making sure that I have vegetables, eating like whole foods like good stuff. That made me feel incredible. And then I go out for dinner with a friend not I mean, not anymore. But whatever I get that I that I forget to meal prep one day, and then I order pizza. And then I eat McDonald's for three weeks straight. And there's no there's no middle ground. Until like today. I we had school last weekend. So I didn't have time to like do any food prep or whatever, and go grocery shopping. And so then I just started eating out every night. And I was just like, it's a perfect excuse. Why would I go grocery shopping if I can eat McDonald's every day. Like I love eating McDonald's. I realized that's weird, but it's my favorite food. We've talked about this before. So today, I was like, You know what, screw it, I need to buy groceries. And so I didn't have time to buy groceries because we were recording and I had to work today and whatever. And so I just used like a delivery app and I bought groceries and we had, you know steak and mashed potatoes and kale and it was super yummy. And I was like, Oh my god, this is what real food tastes like. And like of course I know what real food tastes like. But when I get into these ruts, I have a really hard time getting out of them. And so I forget and then it's the same with exercise. And it's the same with anything really. And to the point where my counselor is like, you need to stop using your Apple Watch, because you have the exact same problem with your Apple Watch. And again, I'm not necessarily using my Apple Watch to not, not use an Apple Watch to lose weight. But I like numbers. Thera knows, I like numbers. I check numbers all the time. And so like I would, if I didn't have my like, move, ring closed, at the end of the day, I would get out of bed at 11:30pm and go for a walk. That's not a normal thing to do. And so I committed to my counselor that I would not beat myself up over my rings on my Apple Watch, and that I would lower my goals on my Apple Watch. So that I wouldn't feel the pressure to, to do that. And so I still again, I think it's super important to move. And one of the things that Sara says all the time is like, honor your body with movement, and I 100% agree with you and I, I love movement, and I love moving. But because of this black and white. If I don't do it every day, then I don't do it at all. And then if I do it every day that my body gets exhausted, because you're not supposed to exercise hard every day. And it's just this vicious cycle that I that I struggle with. And so I try and so now instead of running and inevitably twisting my ankle and running on it, because I'm a stupid klutz, I walk. I listen to a podcast, and I go for a walk. And I love walking. Now. Sometimes I'll get on the phone with somebody and just talk to them for like two hours and just go for a walk. And it just doesn't even feel like times gone. Because I'm just like, talking to my dad or like my friend or somebody I haven't talked to in a really long time. And I absolutely love doing that. But it's to me like walking is the gray. Because it's not like hardcore exercise. And it's not sitting around and getting miserable.

Sara Amundson: 41:58

Yeah, I could totally identify with that with hiking. It's like an activity. I love that I I know it's good for me, but doesn't feel like exercise.

Laurie Edmundson: 42:09

Yeah, I'm never going hiking with you. I would die. Everywhere I walk right now is very flat.

Sara Amundson: 42:16

I am so patient.

Laurie Edmundson: 42:19

I bet you are actually you probably really are.

Sara Amundson: 42:26

I want to say how proud of you I am for sharing stuff that you've never shared before. I imagine that requires a certain level of grit and vulnerability that most of us aren't prepared to have it. Eight o'clock on a Tuesday night.

Laurie Edmundson: 42:39

Yeah, not quite. But I mean, in a way, I like that we said in our substance use episode that this was going to be the episode following because we've been putting I've been putting this off for a very long time. And so I think now that it's out, I actually feel okay. We'll see how it feels like when it comes out,

Sara Amundson: 42:58

but doesn't even have to come out. But you've put it out there into the world, right? I mean, so you said you had a funny story about attempting to get help. I really want everybody listening to know that. If this wasn't Laurie, who I trust and love to manage her own life, because she's an adult, she has autonomy, I would be pushing for someone to seek treatment as soon as possible.

Laurie Edmundson: 43:29

So yeah, so I mean, in the last, so I mean, I would argue, I would argue that as an 11 year old telling the psychotic psychiatrist, I have problems, not stopping eating, and it just stresses me that that was me reaching out for help, and nobody helped me.

Sara Amundson: 43:45

Totally. So I, I don't think you haven't reached out for help. I think it's a system failure that we've talked about, right? Like systems don't recognize people who hold bigger bodies as people who could potentially have eating disorders. And there's a giant amount of self advocacy that will have to go on in order to get good treatment and blood.

Laurie Edmundson: 44:07

Yeah, and money, which... that's the hard part as well. So I the funny story is that when I was at university, we had like a University Counseling Service or whatever. And to be fair, I think they're mostly like, masters level, like they're not great. But this poor, poor lady, so I like was motivated. I went to the counselor, I like did the intake. And I said in my intake, like the problem that I'm here to discuss is disordered eating. And then we get into the session. And she's like, so you want to talk about disordered eating? And I was like, I do not. And she's like, it's, well, that's what you like, said was on the forum. And I was like, No, I do not want to talk about that. And then I got like, super triggered and like hated her for the rest of our time together because she asked me about my disordered eating, that I had told her to ask me about, and then the whole therapeutic relationship was just Like gone. And that was a sign that I was like, oh crap that is problematic

Sara Amundson: 45:04

That's BPD for you.

Laurie Edmundson: 45:07

Yeah, but you know what, like, I can go into a counselor and say I have an issue with X, Y, and Z, the only thing that I have a hard time talking about is eating.

Sara Amundson: 45:15

Well, that's what I'm saying. That was the combination of the eating disorder voice being triggered, and the BPD being like, Fuck you, bitch. It's over. Yeah, I don't even know your name, and fuck you and fuck your mom, too.

Laurie Edmundson: 45:24

Yeah, totally. So there was that time that I tried to access services, then I tried to access services through a dietitian. And this is where again, this whole thing where being a person that has a bigger body, trying to access services at a dietitian who's saying like, well, you're probably going to gain weight. And that's okay. And it's like, Well, okay, but I want to be healthy. You know, it's just, it's a whole thing. And it's super confusing. And so I went to a dietician for a couple of sessions, she was in like downtown Vancouver, and it was like an hour and a half drive. And she did a couple of telehealth appointments, but I just like really didn't like the way that she was approaching things. And again, like, as everybody that listens to this knows, like, I'm a strong advocate for being able to, like, choose your providers if you can, and like, like shop around. And I mean, I don't really know why I didn't appreciate what she was doing very much. But it was a lot of well, it was very structured, which felt weird for somebody trying to not have rules around food. So it was like, you can only eat at noon. For at six, forensics. And like, there was no wiggle room. And it was kind of like, okay, but like, I have a job that I'm on the road all the time. Like, I don't have it. I don't I can't like do that, you know? Anyway, so that was kind of weird. And then there was a lot of like, feelings journals. about like, a, why are you eating? Is it because you're hungry or whatever. And that's difficult when you have a lot of feelings. And I'm sure it's super valuable, but it was super triggering, and even thinking about it is super triggering. And I'm sure that I would benefit a lot from it, but I just was not ready at the time.

Sara Amundson: 47:23

That is what I want to point out, is like, it probably wouldn't matter what modality someone was using. If you're not motivated to change, you're not motivated to change. And like we all have to go through that process.

Laurie Edmundson: 47:36

Yeah, and it totally and I mean, I like same substance use, right? I it wasn't that I wasn't motivated to change, I wasn't motivated to change in the way that she wanted me to change. And I think that that was an Of course, like that could be its own disordered thought process. But in my head, like the client should be directing the treatment. And I didn't feel like she was listening to what I was saying. So that was that was, that was a couple of years ago. And to be fair, like, I mean, we all know Aaron is a gem, but like he came to the sessions with me. He Well, he, he came and sat in the waiting room. And then I did the first half of the session. And then he came in for the last half so that he could support me and it was like, it was really great. And it just didn't work. And I didn't like it. And it was incredibly expensive. It was so expensive. It was ridiculous. And then my counselor, actually, um, we found her because she's like, trained in DBT. And she said on her website that she would work with people with BPD, which is important because a lot of people won't work with people with BPD. But it turns out, she actually also works on a children's eating disorder unit at one of the hospitals out here. And so she knows a lot about eating disorders, of course, she's working with kids. So her and I had a lot of conversations about eating disorders, but I would never allow us to focus solely on that. So there was a lot of like, like you were saying when she was like, have you ever been diagnosed with OCD? Because it seems like you may have like some serious OCD type symptoms and you know, like delete your fitness pal like when how often are you weighing yourself like all those like basics? I could kind of get away with those, but then we would talk about food and then I would get so triggered that I would go to McDonald's on the way home. And I really should call my counselor she's so lovely and I just really appreciate her and and like I do think that she knows me well enough to be able to talk about this I just talking about this just makes me want to shut down so hard. And I this is the part of my mental health where I don't see recovery in the future.

Sara Amundson: 49:50

Yeah, I think it's because you're not motivated to change.

Laurie Edmundson: 49:54

How do I get motivated to change?

Sara Amundson: 49:57

You stop lying to yourself?

Laurie Edmundson: 50:01

What am I lying to myself about?

Sara Amundson: 50:04

Um, it seems to me like you have a very, very strong belief that if you were to gain any weight through recovery, that you would be more unhealthy. With 10 pounds of weight gain and recovery, then you are actively involved with your disordered eating. Because let's be real, right? Your fiance of four years doesn't know these things. They're you're in a trio. You're in a threesome in your partnership. He wish Laurie and not the fucking fun kind. Okay? Right? Hi, there's no hidden it from behind. And sideways. There's just lying. It's Lori and Lori's eating disorder, and Aaron, and it's a fucking hard spot to be in. And it's not your fault. I can promise you though, that you will be healthier. If you gain 10 pounds in recovery, then you will be stuck in this cycle of disordered eating. And most likely, you figure out what real recovery looks like for you. And you figure out what true food freedom looks like for you. And once your body realizes it's going to be fed the way that it needs to be fed, it will come to its natural weight.

Laurie Edmundson: 51:28

I do believe that.

Sara Amundson: 51:31

I think that you cognitively understand that.

Laurie Edmundson: 51:36

I'm not saying that you're wrong, that I'm lying to myself, but I do really, really, really believe that I can be at this way or near this weight and be healthy. Yeah, but that's not what's happening right now.

Sara Amundson: 52:00

Sorry about that, right. I mean, it's a there's a combination of a ton of fear and internalized shame about what weight and health are and how they relate. And also, bingeing serves some sort of need and purpose for you, right? It's like you just said, like, I feel out of control. And so I want to go to McDonald's, we could just break this down to some sort of needs based assessment like your body, unless it's actually hungry. is not eating to eat. It's eating for some other purpose, right? This is why DBT is so effective for people with disordered eating, because it comes back to the dysregulation Okay, so for everybody listening, Laurie just rolled her eyes at me. No, I did. I did I did. You don't even notice you fucking bitch. I didn't mean to know. So here's the deal. So Laurie just rolled her eyes at me. I called her eating disorder out, she might be mad at me, we might have to have like a deer man. If we do, that's totally fine. We're gonna get through it. I love you so much. But you're, you're stuck in it.

Laurie Edmundson: 53:08

I love you too and I'm not mad at you. I 100% promise, I don't like what we're saying. I know, you can see that on my face.

Sara Amundson: 53:14

I know.

Laurie Edmundson: 53:15

But I'm not mad at you.

Sara Amundson: 53:18

And also, here's the thing, right is that you have very strong psychosocial supports, you have Aaron, you have your dad, you have so many people that love you, you have me, we're all going to show up for you. You have very good skills. So you will know. You will know when you get to your rock bottom, and you are forced to address this and it will happen. And this is the thing that for me, and we'll talk about my story another time. But I met my nutritionist at about 50 pounds of weight loss that occurred and I would say the first 60 days, two months, the rest of it was a lot slower. Because obviously my body was like holding on to this weight. Right. And I know that you don't want numbers. I apologize. I forgot about that boundary.

Laurie Edmundson: 54:06

No, I've said numbers too. It's sometimes it's easier. It's the

Sara Amundson: 54:11

it gives the context to the severity, right? Yeah, the numbers of the weight loss is less triggering to me than the numbers of what you weigh. So that makes sense. Totally. And like for people listening healthy, sustainable weight loss is one half to one pound per week. One half to one pound per week, which means if someone were to lose 50 pounds that would take them 50 weeks. I did that in a thru starving. So when I met my nutritionist, and I was like I'm here because I plateaued. I don't know what to do. I really need your help. She's she was like, hey, Sarah, listen, this is kind of not what you think it is. And that's kind of not what you're here for. You have an eating disorder. Now I was like, okay, fuck you. No, no. And I remember walking out afterwards. And being like, I'm never gonna come back. Of course, I went back and the next session, she said, You're not ready. That's okay. But we're gonna define what your rock bottom is, and we're gonna hold you accountable once you hit it. And I did, I hit my rock bottom. It was a hospital admission, it was an EKG, it was heart palpitations. It was severe lanugo, I had very clearly identified what rock bottom was. And once I hit it, I had to go get treatment, right? So like, what is rock bottom for you? I mean, that's kind of what it sounds like you need to name for yourself, you don't have to name it for yourself right now in this podcast. But eventually, if you continue to engage in this kind of behavior, it's going to have these serious consequences on your health that are going to be far worse than what your weight is.

Unknown: 55:58

But how that's an

Sara Amundson: 56:01

eating disorder. But

Laurie Edmundson: 56:03

how, how do you determine what your rock bottom is? Without focusing on a weight? Mine when you're above when you're not like? Like, when I can't have my own shoes, because like, I don't want to get to that point.

Sara Amundson: 56:21

I'm in my rock bottom had nothing to do with my actual body and everything to do with my life. Like I was like, if I can no longer pay attention. If I am, if I can't go to social events, like if I am not functioning right, like are you able to function in your life the way that you need to be able to function to manage your life? I don't mean functioning, tying down to tie your shoes, Laurie like, I mean, like, Is Your Life functional? Or are you going out of the way lying to your partner to go get food to serve some sort of emotional need?

Laurie Edmundson: 57:03

I think my life's okay. I'm pretty productive and happy and good.

Sara Amundson: 57:13

this is I think it's important to note that I've never had I've never binged in my life. I don't know what it's like. So from the perspective of bingeing, I don't have a ton of context of the danger dangers, like, right the dangers that that could give and what rock bottom looks like, but I imagine that's not good for your organs, right? Like,

Laurie Edmundson: 57:34

no, of course not. But this is the mentality that is so fucking difficult. Is that the the rock bottom is being fat. It's not, but it is. It's not, but you're not gonna see that your organs are failing until you're too fat to do anything about it. And that's where I don't that's where it's like, impossible.

Sara Amundson: 58:03

I don't think my job is to argue with you.

Laurie Edmundson: 58:09

I'm not trying to - I realize it sounds like I'm arguing with you.

Sara Amundson: 58:11

No, no, no, no, you are not I this is what I want to point out for anybody listening, right? And this podcast is fucking uncomfortable, and people are gonna be uncomfortable. Because Listen, I'm fucking far into recovery. And Lori's not, let's just, let's just back and put it like it is. And in DBT skills usage, Laurie is fuckin far into recovery. And I'm not like, so we hold each other accountable. My job is not to help you define what rock bottom is. But it is to say like, half of the conversation you and I are having is not you. It's your eating disorder. And I can see it on your face and I can hear it in your tone. It's your eating disorder talking back to me. Because being obese is not rock bottom. It's not I mean, my BMI would qualify me for that. Currently, most Americans Yeah, would qualify for that. I mean, fucking shit, man, I there's so many people that hold bigger bodies that are doing incredible things that are very healthy. So unless you're telling me, you go to the doctor tomorrow, and they tell you that your organs are failing, I am not going to believe that you are unhealthy or sick because of your weight. I would most likely believe that if there was any organ failure, it would be a result of behaviors related to the disordered eating.

Laurie Edmundson: 59:36

Yeah, like long term,

Sara Amundson: 59:37

yeah, sustained long term damage. That cannot be like reversed.

Laurie Edmundson: 59:45

Okay, so I'm not I'm just going to set a boundary here. I think I'm done with this part of the conversation for now.

Sara Amundson: 59:51

I was just gonna say that I think we have to. Yeah, I have to.

Laurie Edmundson: 59:57

I don't want to end on this because That's not fair to our listeners who are probably like, this is the weirdest episode I have.

Sara Amundson: 1:00:05

I maybe, maybe we don't post it right? Maybe we don't post it but like, I would fucking not. Again, this is not clinician Sarah, this is best friend Sarah, I would not fucking sleep tonight if I didn't say, this is what I'm seeing.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:00:23

Totally. And I think that deep down I know what you're seeing. And I like I think that I've known that for a long time. I'm just not I'm not ready to do anything about it.

Sara Amundson: 1:00:32

Hell no. And that's okay. You don't have to be ready to be ready tomorrow or next year. You just have to know that at some point. There's a ready. I love you.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:00:47

I love you too. I just want to acknowledge the fact that to me, my brain literally was like, hey, tomorrow, I started counting calories again. That was my ready. And that is I like I read that. Like I thought it's not what I my ready should be. But that is how ingrained This is so

Sara Amundson: 1:01:04

How are you going to take care of yourself tonight. Tell me how you're going to take care of yourself tonight.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:01:09

I want to eat smores

Sara Amundson: 1:01:13

eat some smores.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:01:15

And I'm gonna watch Grey's Anatomy. And I'm gonna cry.

Sara Amundson: 1:01:19

Fuck Yeah, dude, me too, because I feel so much guilt right now. Why? Cuz I'm riding you so hard. But it's only because I love you so much. And I need you to fucking stay here. That's the thing. Like, I need you to stay so bad. But it doesn't matter. That's not how eating disorder works. It's not about other people. It's just you and your Ed. Yeah, no matter what I want.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:01:45

You don't have to feel guilt because I put myself in the situation. And I've said, I've done this to you just not publicly about other things, not eating disorders. So the thing that I just want, I want to end on this because this is clearly not going to be the only episode on this. And I think that I should probably call my counselor tomorrow and start talking to her about this. But the thing that I'm curious about is, um, so I think that I use my DBT skills really well. I think that I like I have a

Sara Amundson: 1:02:17

god, Yeah, you do.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:02:18

I have a very solid understanding of DBT skills, and I apply them in my life regularly. And of course, like, we all make mistakes, and they don't always happen. But generally speaking. So of course, like DBT is the modality that I like, genuinely, like care about and understand. And I don't really want to switch to a different modality for deep for eating disorder treatment. But in what ways? Like, what is the benefit of me? Learning like going, let's say, let's say I was able to find the DBT group about eating disorders, because I don't know if that's a thing up here. And I don't know if that's a thing up here in in COVID. Because I know that a lot of DBT has been canceled. If I were to find that, and I were to go Am I just learning the exact same skills that I already know.

Sara Amundson: 1:03:10

Well, but isn't DBT like isn't the my experience with it? Anyways, it's so much less about the skills and more about the practical application of skills in group. So in group you guys wouldn't be going through a dear man to tell your mother in law she's at you know, a crossing a boundary, you'd be going through skills specific to food every single time and food related behaviors.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:03:37

Yeah, that's true. So

Sara Amundson: 1:03:38

yeah, I guess you dive into it.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:03:40

Yeah, it's less about the, to me it's less about learning the skills because I already know them. It's about applying them. So in that situation, actually, I could probably work with my counselor one on one and a workbook specifically about DBT and eating disorders.

Sara Amundson: 1:03:55

Totally. 1,000%

Laurie Edmundson: 1:03:59

I hate this.

Sara Amundson: 1:04:00

I know you know what, I hate it for you. It sucks food sucks. Food is fucking weird, man.

Laurie Edmundson: 1:04:11

Yeah. Okay, well we're gonna end the episode now.

Unknown: 1:04:17

Happy

Laurie Edmundson: 1:04:18

episode everybody. vn Sara, still love each other. Don't worry, we're not mad.

Sara Amundson: 1:04:24

I'm gonna stay up all night and be like, Oh my god, Laurie hates me. I was too hard on her. No bad. I'm a bad clinician. I'm a bad friend. I I'm too impulsive. I hate myself. I can't breathe. Ah,

Laurie Edmundson: 1:04:37

no, you're first of all, you're not my clinician. So you take that one right out?

Sara Amundson: 1:04:41

Totally. And that's a boundary in my life that I maintain of like, I don't brain hack people, right, like so if I'm showing up on the podcast, I'm showing up just as like BPD Sara, Laurie's bes friend

Laurie Edmundson: 1:04:53

Yeah, totally. And you and I knew this was going to be difficult and I think At least for me, and I think that you were going to do whatever I agreed for this particular topic, because you knew it was gonna be difficult. But I think that it is important that we have these conversations in a public space, because not very many people are having these conversations at this length in a public space. And I know that sometimes, and this is not a brag at all, please check this out. But I know that I sometimes I get messages being like, how can you have BPD and be this positive all the time? Or like, how can you have BPD and like, understand the skills and use them all the time, and it's like, Girl, nobody uses their skills all the time. Nobody is positive all the time. So like, I think it's important that we show that like, you can be in a really great place in some areas of your life and not in others.

Sara Amundson: 1:05:46

And that is why I preach a holistic wellness model so much, right? Like you could be healthy in seven of the eight domains. But if your physical health isn't intact, you're not healthy, right? Like in terms of your behaviors around physical health, not if you have any underlying health conditions or anything like that, but okay, have you recording?

Laurie Edmundson: 1:06:09

Okay, thanks, everybody, for listening to this really weird episode?

Sara Amundson: 1:06:14

Um, please, yeah,

Laurie Edmundson: 1:06:18

I'm gonna start recording, Sarah is gonna put some resources in the show notes for us.

Sara Amundson: 1:06:23

I am I am gonna put resources in the show notes. I also think it's worth noting, like, if me having pushback for Laurie is uncomfortable to you, you as in the listeners, and your eating disorder, please know that Lori and I have a very unique relationship where there's like a severe amount of trust established that makes me feel like I can be the way that I am with regards to this topic. And I also run the risk of knowing that she could push me away and totally terminate our friendship. And my conscious would accept that if it brought something to the consciousness for her health, like so that's a cost benefit analysis, like a risk I'm willing to take if saying something means something,

Laurie Edmundson: 1:07:07

and that's not going to happen. So just you know, and also I can say, like Sarah, and I read all of your DMS. We are not I can speak for myself. I'm not good at answering them quickly. But you will get a response.

Sara Amundson: 1:07:21

Message Sara, efore you message, Laurie

Laurie Edmundson: 1:07:25

Sometimes I'll be like, um, did you know that this person's been trying to talk to you for like, two weeks, I read every single one of them, I promise. It's part of my wellness to not answer them every single day because I can't keep up. If this is triggering for you, or you're feeling like you feel like I was attacked, or you feel like I was attacking Sarah, you feel free to reach out to either of us and just say like, you go, because like we're both good. But yeah, so anyways, we'll we'll do a follow up episode of this, obviously, because we haven't even heard a single thing about their story yet.

Sara Amundson: 1:07:59

Hi, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the bold, beautiful borderline podcast orien. I are so grateful that you're here with us on this journey. And we can't wait to dive into more topics in the future with you all about borderline, and even have some more fun and exciting guests to join us on the podcast. If you really enjoyed this episode, we would love if you would rate review and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. We would also love to see you interact with us on social media and on our Patreon page, the links to that are included in the show notes. So check us out there, we would be incredibly honored to get to know you all as you get to know us and our recovery stories. We love you and we'll see you next time.